Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 11:42Let me add another grain of sand to the discussion...
I think I agree with JP, part of the debate is to put together a method on doing these things and have everybody use the same... the goal being to be more competitive...
I know like anything else the debate on the details will be the hard one...
but I would suggest the first question is... do we want to...
- Do we want to do more MM contests... - Do we want to get some serious scores... - Do we want to put CGQ on the MAP...
if we want to... Then a METHOD must be put together and followed be all the operator part of the specific event...
the details of the METHOD is another debat following this one, lets not loose ourself in details before establishing if we want to...
I know on my part, I loved last week-ends experience... and would love to do it again... and my answers to all 3 questions above is Yes...73
Richard VE2DX Jesus Island, PQ-014, FN35cm
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VE2FWW
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 12:43You're absolutely RIGHT Victor... Many things have to be improved...as you say, and I agree with this 100%. I know many operators form this station DA0HQ...they are all good...very good indeed... Je suis absolument convaincu qu'on peut en faire autant...mais il faut prendre les moyens pour le faire.....nous ne sommes pas moins intelligents que ces operateurs ....mais on est plus lent tout simplement.... Il y a un debut a tout....et il faut avoir la volonte de le faire...et surtout de le faire......et cesser de se contenter de peu.... NOEL
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VA2SG
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 13:07Something short Victor and make changes if you want no problem. If theres something wrong in the english version, simply make appropriate corrections.
First HQ experience for us in this event. We had about 45 days to setup in a very big territory and made our best in conditions. We all had a good time and will try to improve performance. Surprising opening on 10m, 40m being a bit disappointing. Quebec is getting a long way back in radiosport and we will continue to improve its representation. Strange that lot of stations dont know VA*RAC are Canada HQ stations.
Première expérience HQ pour vous. Nous avons eu environ 45 jours pour s'organiser dans un énorme territoire et avons fait de notre mieux dans les conditions. Nous avons tous eu beaucoup de plaisir et tenterons d'améliorer nos performances. Ouverture surprenante sur 10m, 40m étant un peu décevant. Le Québec revient de loin dans le domaine du radiosport et nous continuerons d'améliorer sa représsentation. Étrange que certaines stations ne savent pas que VA*RAC sont les stations HQ du Canada.
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VA2SG
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 13:18J'oubliais autre chose.
The forum is a good way to communicate. The chat billboard is better way to communicate. But, we could have a teamspeak session on the internet, at times fixed in advance, lets say, twice a month or something. Very fast way to get things going.
The teamspeak software is free and I am sure we could setup a internal voice communication easyly. I am sure Victor know about teamspeak.
I used it back when I was doing lot of flight sim with Aerovirtuel Quebec. Teamspeak does not affect either you connection speed nor software exchange on the web.
We could even use while contesting, not phone contest, but CW or RTTY. If you wanna go nto this, I'll buy a new computer and we'll have a ball.
You think billboard was fun? Wait!
Now I go, gotta work!
Post edited by: va2sg, at: 2008/07/15 13:19Jean-Pierre VA2SG - VE2SSS
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At K3LR we were using Win-Test for last two year and it works great in a MM enviroment, with partner function, local cluster, etc all work perfect, I know K3LR is having very powerfull PCs in all of his stations. If you want to make some question, W9ZRX is the Win-test expert at K3LR.
I was using CT at my station, because my PC is an old Pentium 1 enough for running CT DOS, I'm using CT since CQ WW SSB 1989 and I never have a problem .
We could do it better for sure, but for the first time running all together MM HQ we got a lot of experience. Maybe next time, we could meet all together somewhere to discuss everything well in advance of the contest.
A bientot
73, Claudio VE2DWA
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Désolé de ne pas avoir été du groupe... je n'étais pas certain d'etre capable de faire tout ces heures assis dans une chaise pour 24 heures ! Mais je me porte de mieux en mieux.
Peut-être l'an prochain ! Félicitation a tout le groupe on voit qu'il y a eu des efforts sur plusieurs bandes avec un nombre restreint d'opérateurs.
Juste une réflexion... and this is from Victor comment with DA0HQ ...
do you realized this is 23,500 QSO in 24 hour wich is Average 1000 QSO/HRS
Now this is at the bottom of the Sun Cycle ! ! ? ?
73 ' Phil VE2FUPhil VE2FU
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Tout d’abord, merci à Noël pour le travail toujours ingrat de consolidation des logs. Ensuite, Merci à ceux qui ont eu l’initiative d’organiser et d’être moteur de cette opération VA2RAC.
Il s’est passé beaucoup de choses en peu de temps au cours de ce contest et difficile d’aborder tous les sujets.
Le fait le plus positif est que pour la première fois, beaucoup d’entre nous sommes devenu une équipe et que nous avons produit un résultat.
It was a first time and of course we have observed many ways of improvement.
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VE2TZT
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 22:38The most obvious, we new it before starting, was the lack of an adapted communication and synchronisation tool : the networked log. Without this tool, the team was not really a team but a gang of isolated hunters who had just added theirs trophies at the end of the game in order to share them.
It is obvious that with a synchronisation tool, a real time adaptation is possible: for example :
- a 15mn rest when a band is at its maximum is easy to compensate, an other operator working on a low priority band can take the run on the same frequency immediately.
-During high running rates, a second operator can feed a band map and work quickly the mults when the runner rates are lowering (the runner then stops for few minutes ).
-If a HQ had already been worked on a mode the operator of the other mode will not waste his time to crack a pile-up on an already worked mult.
-If an unexpected opening occurs, it is possible to instantly reorganise the operators band allocation.
-At 06h00 local time, my job on 160/80 CW was ended. I still was having enough energy to work until the end of the contest (08h00 local). There was only two operators for all the other bands/mode, I am sure that, for example, it had been possible to find some new zones on 40m in the West direction. But how to be sure that the 40m/CW operator was not active again and how to know which zones were already worked with which station ?
-During the summer, the dark period is very short and the 80 and 160 are opening at the same time. In addition, the casual contesters are on the air during a short period and are going to sleep early, even if those bands are open. Then there are only two hours of rush on those bands and impossible to manage two runs at the same time. The guys not contacted on the second band during this rush are lost for ever. If during this two hours period a second runner had been active, we should have gotten 50 or 100 more qso and associated mults.
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VE2TZT
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 22:39A second obvious improvement should be the callsign. VA2RAC is very long to transmit and the casual operators do not know that this is a HQ station. Result : waste of transmission time, lost of potential calls from some casual S&P and risk of error : how many EU stations copied UA2RAC at first call and how many asked for a repeat on 599RAC because of the surprise ? Something like VC2HQ seems more appropriate (ideal is of course VE2HQ, but the history of the two letters callsigns it the one we know...).
Otherwise, it was my first try of the K3. It seems that the noise is really less aggressive than on the MKV, but I need to confirm that when I will be able to listen to the two TRX at the same time, which will not be very long from now (my SO2R is nearly ready).
I need to use the K3 more, until I get automated in its use (at the same level than I am on the MK V) before emitting an objective opinion on it. My first and subjective feeling is that it is a very powerful machine, but it must be seen more like a prototype than a production line machine. The K3 should be compared to a Ferrari and the MKV to a Mercedes. The Ferrari needs more care, more attention, more adjustments, more knowledge, more contacts with the manufacturer and is more fragile that the Mercedes, but it is more efficient for the race.
Taking into account that the summer dark is very short, the propagation was not so bad on low bands, I was not too much disturbed by the storms, perhaps thank to the K3, perhaps thank to the propagation. As usual, at the beginning of the night, it was very frustrating to hear so much EU DX and not been heard by them (as the sun is behind us, we have a low noise from West, so we can easily hear their weak signals, but as they are in the dark their local competitor signals are flooding our weak signal). Later, when the signals were of better level, the lack of casual contesters (they are asleep at the end of the European night) gave poor rates. Same thing with US stations at the end of our night.
As usual, some nice calls for the bands: EL2DX, some ZL, FO5RH, one VK7. The first ZL was really challenging to copy through the QRN at its maximum of the night.
Two good run hours over 70/h but obviously there are less participants on this contest than on other big ones (perhaps because many, like us, are in HQ teams and working only one band). For example, during first hours of this year CQWW 160 I had five hours over 80/h, with two at nearly 100/h.
To end, it is unfair to compare us to DA0HQ, it is not the same continent, not the same geomagnetic latitude, and the German amateurs are very disciplined, many of them are opening they radio just the time to call they HQ station on all bands/mode and only it and closing it for the rest of the WE. It is very special... Des mauvaises langues prétendent même qu’il y a des listes arrangées à l’avance… But whatever you believe, it is a fact that DA0HQ is the strongest station of EU, during all the WE, on all the bands and you can contact it very easily, nearly at every time. It is the first you can hear when the band is opening and the last when the band is closing.
Pour finir, je confirme que je vais passer à WINTEST, je le ferais dès que j’ai fini d’installer mon SO2R.
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VA2UP
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/15 23:15Je ne peux passer sous silence les excellents commentaires de Gilles ici. Je pense que la plupart d'entre nous n'ont pas eu la chance de participer dans des MM auparavant. Il s'agit en fait de quelque chose de nouveau que l'on a abordé de la façon habituelle en 'single op' x 8 operators. Claudio's team being the exception since they had 3 ops. Je sais bien que moi de ma part j'ai pris ça un peu à la legère et d'une part n'étant pas un bon operateur ssb et d'autre part encore un moins bon op MM, j'ai operé de façon systematique, denudé de ma 'usual contest crowd' de mon 'contest call' je me suis senti un peu comme un puritain dans un camp de nudistes... I think that some intensive trainig in this type of contest is more than necessary and that we could start by operating a few contests in smaller groups , like Multi 2 or even MM but in less important contests to get the feel going. Start testing the network in this manner, work out the bugs seek for advice from the few in group that are more experimented with this type of configuration and slowly work our way up to a competitive level.
Thanks agn Noel for producing all the results and the stats in such speedy manner but then agn is he a contester or what... it's to be expected.
Fabi
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VE2FWW
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/16 08:18Exvellents commentaires de Gilles TZT. Surtout le fait que le groupe etait comme des chasseure ISOLES.... Je suis 100% d'accord avec ca...C'etait d'ailleurs la raison principale de ne pas faire partie du groupe au depart....manque de communication entres les operateurs. Aussi je deplorais le fait que le LOG n'etait pas le meme.....8 logs au lieu d'un...je sais tres bien de quoi je parle......pour les avoir "merger" Il faut aussi consider dans une operation MM la synchronisation des logs et aussi la synchronisation de l'heure dans les log...si non.....il y a des penalites...et des logs annules.... Je n'ai rien contre un billboard, mais ce n 'est pas suffisant.., mais du tout,cet outil n'est d'ailleurs pas fait pour ca.... Ca prend une communicatin en TEMPS REEL, comme avec WinTest par exemple... J'ai experimenter avec Phil un MM sur 20m cw seulement....on devait s'occupper du 20M cw seulement .... Nous etions en communications constante avec WinTest.... Nos logs etaient synchronises, l'heure etait synchronisee....quel bel outil...NECESSAIRE dans une operation MM..si non tout le monde fait son possible, mais chacun a sa facon, ce qui n'est pas necessairement le mieux....pour le groupe... Par exemple Phil devait devait s'absenter pour des raisons familiales ... pendant que je faisais un RUN ...j'ai su instantanement qu'il me demandait de continuer un peu plus longtemps....je lui ai dit OK, pendant que je repondais a une station ....et la meme chose de mon cote..... Meme Phil a corriger un call dans le log pendant que je faisais des contacts....
Tant qu'au CALL VA2RAC....aussi d'accord..trop long....tres peu connu...temps perdu.....a repeter....etc etc ... S'il y avait dans le groupe des operateurs qui souhaite utiliser Wintest en reseau sur internet...je suis pret a donner du temps pour faire l'experience... surtout l'experimentation des logs synchronises.... Je voudrais aussi signaler la participation de Phil dans le Merging des logs recus, il me fut d'une grande ..il a bcp de ressources dans ce domaine, il connait Wintest encore mieux que moi...Je lui dois donc une bonne chandelle... NOEL
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VA2SG
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Re:VA2RAC IARU 2008 SCORES - 2008/07/16 09:02Je me demandais quels sont les contests ou on peut opérer MM à distance, comme on a fait en fin de semaine.
Doit-on comprendre qu'il faut consulter les règlements de chaque concours pour le savoir?
On applique la règle "Ce qui n'est pas spécifiquement interdit est permis".
Par exemple, peut on le faire dans CQ WW, CQ WPX, ARRL DX, ARRL SS ou autres?Jean-Pierre VA2SG - VE2SSS
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